Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby qreshadow » January 4th, 2012, 9:05 pm

bill_browne wrote: My solution? Give the 500's a weight penalty. Easy, cheap, and will aggravate the snow blowers, which is what we like to do anyway, isn't it?


We've been through this many times before. You can't add more weight to a 500 because the chassis' simply can't take it. There is no suspension to speak of to absorb the competition vigors placed upon these chassis' and and chassis' are cracking now with the weight they have to carry. Adding weight after a while becomes a safety factor.

The 600 proposal is being fought tooth and nail in the racing ranks and is not a very popular addition to F5 if you poll the folks currently in the class and I suspect in Solo either. Parity issues abound and trying to make a 600 MC engined gear box car comparable with a 2 cycle CVT driven car is very problematic.

In Solo, we have enough problems trying to make a Solo Vee competitive with a 500 now and we don't need a MC engined car included in the mix. Although I favor just about any improvements in Solo Vees that will make them competitive against a 500, I really don't think you guys ought to rehash this old weight issue :roll: .

Of course, you can always run A Mod if that is your choice. Afterall, that class isn't governed by the GCR as you stated :lol: .
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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby vreihen » January 4th, 2012, 9:11 pm

RFickes wrote:Now there is a good idea. Blow through turbo (200+hp) and wings = AM :lol: I like that.


...and you'll *still* be cursing snowmobile-powered competitors at the end of the day! :lol:

Several years ago, I was at a Solo event where Formula Junior had FTD. Narrow width and miniscule weight mean just as much as horsepower at an autocross. With the top cars in A-Mod having to ballast to hit 900 pounds with the driver and running pretty close to minimum width, you'll still be looking at the same problems that make the F-500 superior to the Solo Vee in F-Mod. C-Mod is the only place where the Solo Vee can ever hope to find parity, since both are open-wheel formulas based on automobile-derived drivetrains.

Of course, don't let me stop you from going to A-Mod. That's where my next cone-killer will be running.....
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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby bill_browne » January 5th, 2012, 1:58 am

Of course, you can always run A Mod if that is your choice. Afterall, that class isn't governed by the GCR as you stated .


Of course, don't let me stop you from going to A-Mod. That's where my next cone-killer will be running.....


I would like one, or both of you, to explain to me how me pointing out the inaccuracy of the statement "Solo Vee is the only non-GCR formula car" equates to "I want to run in A-Mod".
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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby qreshadow » January 5th, 2012, 8:07 am

bill_browne wrote:
Of course, you can always run A Mod if that is your choice. After all, that class isn't governed by the GCR as you stated .


Of course, don't let me stop you from going to A-Mod. That's where my next cone-killer will be running.....


I would like one, or both of you, to explain to me how me pointing out the inaccuracy of the statement "Solo Vee is the only non-GCR formula car" equates to "I want to run in A-Mod".


The statement made about the Solo Vee not being governed by the GCR and "....is the only non-GCR formula car" may be thought as real world accurate but is not precisely correct as the Solo Vee has, as it's base, a GCR FV. If the CRB/BOD changed the rules governing FV in the GCR, it would/could impact a Solo Vee. The Solo Vee rules may be a far stretch from a FV but they are still connected by a razor thin umbilical cord :lol: .

A Mod is a catch-all, run what you brung class and that is why there are very few rules governing a car's construction. If you want to split hairs, A Mods are considered "Specials", not formula cars, sports racers, or what have you. I can't think of any type car right now that couldn't run A Mod if the owner wished to play in that sandbox 8) .

The statements made by Vreihen and I were made tongue-in-cheek Bill. To bring up the fact that A Mod is a non-GCR class adds nothing realistic to this discussion and I doubt is news to anybody on this forum. I don't think anyone would consider running a Vee in A Mod but if that were your choice ........ :lol:
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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby vreihen » January 6th, 2012, 9:56 pm

qreshadow wrote:I don't think anyone would consider running a Vee in A Mod but if that were your choice ........ :lol:


2006 PSCC A-Mod Season Champion, in my Vee. :lol: ===>

Attendance trophy aside, the problem with Formula cars in A-Mod is that they always seem to be bigger/heavier than the purpose-built Specials that dominate the class at the national level. Not saying that you can't have fun, but you'll find yourself chasing a snowmobile with wings because the grass isn't any greener in A-Mod.....
Last edited by vreihen on January 7th, 2012, 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby RFickes » January 7th, 2012, 12:16 pm

After rereading all the posts, it seems that there is a general consensus that our best chance to be competitive is to reclassify the solo vee to CM. I have already submitted my letter to the SEB for their consideration. If this move seems best to you, than I encourage you write them also.
Even though a 200+ hp solo vee would be fun to drive, I agree that it would not stand a chance against the custom built AM cars that are running at the Nationals. There is a BM car running in my division and that thing is scary fast. And his total time was about 7 sec off the winning AM car.
My last $.02 . There was a previous thread that suggested that we share our setups and discuss what is working and what is not. I think that this thread is a great idea for saving time and money. I realize the everyone's car is different but there are also a great deal of similarities.
Thanks, Richard
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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby 77fmod » January 28th, 2012, 7:27 pm

Wow! You guys have been busy! I am way behind in this thread so I will just add my comments in a shotgun format.. :P

WIngs add drag and I don't think that we have the power to pull one through the air. Underbody ground effects would be difficult because our cars are so narrow and the development could lead to Computer aided flow dynamics and we are taking expensive at that level.

I would like the heads of the 1915 be allowed bigger valves and an increase in compression. I will say that even though my last show at nationals was a big freaking disaster. (Sidebar: Aside from the oiling issues, I later discover that the Excel formula for my tow setting measurements was flawed and they were completely screwed up on the right side.)

Going back to a roadrace stock setup? I have made all the last improvements to my car at considerable expense and would object to that type of knee jerk rule change. As I have stated before, except for the guys out of New York last year, I think that we are getting very close to compete against them. On that note, I can't imagine why no one protested those guys unless they the front runners are ALL somewhat out of spec... How can a couple of no-names show up and crush the field by over a second a day? LOL! Too ridiculous for words...

And again, please explain to me how it is that even though we got all the last upgrades, the F500's have managed to step it up enough to stay ahead of us.. QRESHADOW?

Give me the compression and the valves and I will kick some butt!

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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby 77fmod » January 28th, 2012, 7:54 pm

Okay... I would give up the valve size but remove the "unshrouding of the valves is not allowed" provision... However, 10.5:1 would be a good start and reduce the flywheel weight.. Currently 12 lbs. I have no idea what the lower limit is but I will look into it..

More later..

JGB
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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby 77fmod » January 28th, 2012, 8:09 pm

Okay.. After some quick investigation, I have learned that there are cars out there running 8 lb. flywheels. Therefore, I would also suggest that we are allowed a minimum weight of 8 lbs for the flywheel.
Now I will look into clutch packs...
Bear with me.. I told you it would be a shotgun approach..

JGB
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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby qreshadow » January 28th, 2012, 11:16 pm

"And again, please explain to me how it is that even though we got all the last upgrades, the F500's have managed to step it up enough to stay ahead of us.. QRESHADOW?"



Well Johnny..... they obviously are all cheaters, right? :roll: .
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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby vreihen » January 29th, 2012, 8:11 am

qreshadow wrote:Well Johnny..... they obviously are all cheaters, right? :roll: .


Never trust anyone who brings a snowmobile to an automobile fight. :lol:

Seriously though, the only fix that I can see in this case of apples versus oranges in F-Mod is to move the Solo Vee to C-Mod, where it will be more like oranges versus tangerines but at least both will be based on automobile-derived drivetrains. As a plus, there won't be the smell of two-stroke exhaust stinking up the grid..... :mrgreen:
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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby 77fmod » January 29th, 2012, 10:18 am

LOL! I knew it.

Okay. I will go along with going to C/mod but I am sure they would not be happy about it.

At this point I am going to suggest a bump in compression and a lighter flywheel as improvements. They are inexpensive and would do wonders for acceleration.

I realize that we will never be as quick through the slaloms as a 500 due to the width but a typical course only has one or two of them. I have my car down to 62" wide and that is only 7" wider than them.

It looks as though we will have a good site to run nearby this year and I should be able to get some good seat time and be ready for nationals again.

Later,
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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby qreshadow » January 29th, 2012, 7:19 pm

Seriously Johnny, I would think that that winning car would have come under intense scrutiny but I wasn't there so I have no idea if it did or didn't. Those brothers are not new to F Mod, just that car.

On other forums, they are trying to direct attention to their diffuser and their sports car nose as the reason they are so fast but like all "magicians", you can't be looking at what they want you to look at :lol: . Diffusers and sports car noses....common sense causes me not believe it gave them the margins they won with, but I bet this year's National will see some other 500s with the same setup just in case they did find the "holy grail" in F Mod :lol: :lol: .

I see no reasonable resistance to moving the Solo Vee to C Mod if that is what you guys truely want. If you think that is a better choice for your cars, then by all means ask the SEB to allow that move.

If you want more mod allowances, whether you move or not, then I'd suggest you all speak with one voice and provide a united front instead of one or two of you asking for this or that. That's what this forum is all about.

Just sayin' 8)
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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby Vernon Maxey » January 31st, 2012, 4:44 pm

Hi Guys,
Does anyone know the power to weight ratio of a CM? From what I have gathered from looking at the 500 website, they are running close to a 7.5lbs to 1hp. What are we running? I know that I'm running, 10lbs to 1hp. What does that tell you? More HP? I think that would help. What do you all think?
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Re: Rewrite of Solo Vee Rules

Postby Lynn » January 31st, 2012, 7:30 pm

A top FF Kent road race engine is 124 hp at the crank. Most road racers are around 120. I'd guess that most of the CM Fords are a bit less. FF minimum weight is 1100 lbs with driver.
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