1970 Lynx vee

1970 Lynx vee

Postby jaymzz » February 11th, 2009, 12:00 am

I figured that I should start a thread on my car. This is a very cool forum, and lots of great info for us noobs, so thank you for that. :)

I bought this car not knowing what I was getting into. I was told that it is a 1970 formula super vee. The person I bought it from said it was race ready for autocross and hillclimbs. At my first race last year with it it lasted about a half an hour before giving me a huge fit. I ended up finishing the 3 day event in the wife's Subaru, but I did learn a lot that weekend about the vee and what I needed to do to get it ready for this season. So that one weekend was not a loss to me at all. Very glad it happened at the last race of the year and not the first race of the year. The reason I bought it was I need a dedicated car that is relatively cheap to repair versus my Mitsubishi. I tried a hillclimb last year and am hooked. But the thought of wrecking my daily driver on the hill was a little nerve wrecking for me. This vee kind of fell into my lap right after the hillclimb.

Well enough about that. Onto the car. This is what it looked like when I bought it. The only difference is that it has drum brakes in the picture and it came with disc brakes when I bought it.
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I had it about a week and a half before my first race with it. I found a lot of problems with it in that first week and worked almost around the clock to get it ready for the race. I will do a different post with all the problems I found. If possible maybe all of you can give me some points and tips to make it better. Here it is the day before the race. The paintjob is temporary. It was kind of a joke to paint it black. I own a pretty good size car club and had to lower the tension somehow about the race. The race is most of the NW carclubs competing against each other, so my club was a little worried. That is what the skull and crossbones were for. :lol:
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When I got it home from that race it went right into the garage and a huge list of stuff to get done was pinned to the wall. Here is my new hoop. The new one sitting behind the old one to show the height difference. I think the car was build for a 4 foot tall person and I am over six feet.
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New hoop in.
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The next major issue I had was the exhaust. It was really restrictive and ugly. I welded up the rust holes and some of the other problems with it before the race. I am pretty sure that is was to restrictive for the 1776.
Old exhaust
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New exhaust
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The next major problem was the motor hopping around everywhere. So made a front engine mount for it. It makes it a little difficult to get the motor in and out, but the motor is solid now. Before it only had the 4 bolts in the tranny holding it in.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby jaymzz » February 11th, 2009, 12:14 am

Off of the top of my head, all the problems I found were
Leaking gas tank
Electric fuel pump without a regulator to the carbs. Man that half burned gas smell stinks. lol
Shifter needs redone, but I can't figure out what to do to make it any better. Very hard to shift and the shift pattern is backwards.
Clutch cable wrong size or something. I had it adjusted all the way down on a new clutch and still didn't function properly. Looking into hydrolic clutch to solve this. This is the reason I couldn't finish the first race.
Throttle cable kept sticking. Another one I am not to sure what to do about.
Most of the wiring fell apart at the connectors. This is one of the main reasons it didn't finish the first race.
Master cylinder kept leaking. I went down and bought a brake light switch to plug the hole. Worked like a charm

There is a lot more, but I don't want to sound like I am complaining. I have had a lot of fun working on this with my son. He is almost 8 and I am trying to get a junior program going in the local autocross club for him. Feel free to criticize the car or my thinking. I am completely new to this kind of car. One of my first threads here was trying to learn about the vee. What I learned just confused me more. lol So I decided to build the car to fit me and my needs and let who ever classes it put it in whatever class they feel it fits in. I am out just for fun. I ran points last year in my Evo and it got kind of stressful worrying about holding 1st place.
What are you all doing for seats in the lynx? Also what are you doing for shifters? Those are the two that I am having the most problems with. My hips are to wide to fit in between the frame, so I would like to put some kind of something in to raise me up a tad. I will keep this updated as I go.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby 77fmod » February 11th, 2009, 10:33 am

Hey,
Just a quick comment, I believe I had read somewhere that although it would seem that a front mount on a VW motor is a good idea, it can be determental to it. I can't remember exactly why but it might have to do with expansion of the components due to the high temps of an air cooled motor. Locking the front down would cause some binding on the rotating assembly.
Someone with more knowledge, please chime in .

Johnny B.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby DanRemmers » February 11th, 2009, 1:52 pm

Ok, some comments:

Shifter - This is one area that is difficult to fix and takes lots of time and thought, but is worth it all to get it working. Every car is different, but there are some basics that apply. If you can, take a look at a modern vee and look at the entire shift mechanism. The shaft, u-joints, shifter, and hockey stick (attachment to the gear box) all have to be tight enough to reduce play, yet loose enough (and lubricated) to allow free movement. These parts wear out as they are used, so check them each carefully and replace if worn (and get spares). Threaded bolts used as pivots are a common problem (ask me how I know).

On older cars, rust is an issue. My solo vee was caught in a downpour while sitting in the grid and driving back onto the trailer, for a total of 15 minutes. The next race 3 weeks later, the shift rod (aluminum) had siezed to one of its bearings (steel), and the throttle was sticking. After spraying WD-40 in the throttle cable, it still stuck. It took a while to figure out that the gas pedal pivot had rusted. Fortunately, all three pedals had grease fittings, so that's added to the maintenance list.

My car also had clutch issues. It's a hydraulic clutch, but the total motion provided from floored to foot off the pedal was not enough to go from fully engaged to fully disengaged. The solution was to get a clutch release arm that was shorter than stock (purchased from SR Racing).

But at least you are on the right track. I got my solo vee 5 years ago and have used this forum to answer lots of questions.

Good luck.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby SR Racing » February 11th, 2009, 3:54 pm

77fmod wrote:Hey,
Just a quick comment, I believe I had read somewhere that although it would seem that a front mount on a VW motor is a good idea, it can be determental to it. I can't remember exactly why but it might have to do with expansion of the components due to the high temps of an air cooled motor. Locking the front down would cause some binding on the rotating assembly.
Someone with more knowledge, please chime in .

Johnny B.


We had heard the same thing years ago. So we took a Vee and put it on the dyno and attached a torque bar to a couple points on the front of the engine. While at WOT with full load we torqued the case to many axis' with over 100lbs. (and you won't get 100lbs of any torque from a Vee) We couldn't get the HP to change 1 iota. Since then we have ignored the legend. It is still hanging on though...
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby jaymzz » February 11th, 2009, 10:08 pm

Thanks for the input. So how are all of your motors held it? When I bought mine it only had the four bolts in the bell housing holding it in, and they were very loose. It makes me uncomfortable thinking that only four little bolts hold the whole motor and transmission in. I am glad to here that the shifting linkage is an issue. I will just have to sit down and mess with it for a while and see what I come up with.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby vreihen » February 12th, 2009, 10:29 am

SR Racing wrote:So we took a Vee and put it on the dyno and attached a torque bar to a couple points on the front of the engine. While at WOT with full load we torqued the case to many axis' with over 100lbs. (and you won't get 100lbs of any torque from a Vee) We couldn't get the HP to change 1 iota. Since then we have ignored the legend. It is still hanging on though...


Jim - Are you sure that the legend isn't based on the thermal expansion of the case as the engine heats up? If my engine needs rubber adapters in it's intake manifold to allow for the expansion of the engine as it gets hot, pinning both ends of the engine case to the chassis with solid mounts could very well put some serious stress loads through the case.....
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby SR Racing » February 12th, 2009, 2:33 pm

vreihen wrote:[Jim - Are you sure that the legend isn't based on the thermal expansion of the case as the engine heats up? If my engine needs rubber adapters in it's intake manifold to allow for the expansion of the engine as it gets hot, pinning both ends of the engine case to the chassis with solid mounts could very well put some serious stress loads through the case.....


Couldn't tell you what the legend was based upon. But what we have heard (and continue to hear) is that it was the torque placed upon the case during acceleration. Since that was easy to measure, we stresed the case in every axis way we could to see the effects. We didn't see any. Again the torque you are going to see on a Vee engine is in the 60lb area so it isn't a lot. If thermal expansion was the issue, I think we would still have seen some effects. You might be correct though, as to where the legend (or fact) come from.
We have done pretty well with mounts at all points and like fewer pivot points that help limit shift linkage and suspension geometry changes. So that is what we will continue to believe until some experimentation show us different.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby Martinracing98 » February 12th, 2009, 6:02 pm

jaymzz wrote:Thanks for the input. So how are all of your motors held it? When I bought mine it only had the four bolts in the bell housing holding it in, and they were very loose. It makes me uncomfortable thinking that only four little bolts hold the whole motor and transmission in. I am glad to here that the shifting linkage is an issue. I will just have to sit down and mess with it for a while and see what I come up with.


I think the large majority are held in with just the 4 bolts you speak of.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby jaymzz » February 13th, 2009, 12:47 am

I took everyone's advice and took out the front engine mount that I made. I don't want to take a chance of destroying my engine. But I got a lot done today. I still have a lot to do before it is ready to race, but it is getting very close now. I got the firewall done today, rear harness bar, painted the new hoop, installed the shifter, and got all the wiring done. I redid most of the wiring so it is cleaner looking and put new connectors on almost every wire. I still need to hook up the throttle cable and a few little things. I sat there and looked at the shifter linkage for about an hour today. I am going to look into different kind of bearings and see if I can't come up with something smoother.
Please don't mind the mess in the pictures. I have been busy trying to get the car ready and forgot about house cleaning until I saw that picture. :oops:

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Last edited by jaymzz on February 13th, 2009, 12:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby jaymzz » February 13th, 2009, 12:50 am

I do have a question though. When I started it up one of the cylinders is putting out a lot more exhaust and burning hotter than the others. If you look at the picture above you can see the discolored pipe. Can someone please let me know if this is a tuning issue, or a major problem?

Edit. I just found out a little history about my car. By posting this, maybe someone will know one of the previous owners and can share some more history about it. The person I bought it from only autocrossed it. He bought it from a John Downing who it was registered to from 1974-2003 when he sold it to the person I bought it from.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby Dietmar » February 13th, 2009, 2:46 am

Jay:

I have been following this tread since it started and have a few comments:

Not sure who advised you to remove the front motor mount, but I believe it is necessary. Matter of fact, in your case, I KNOW it is necessary. You will NOT destroy an engine because of a front mount! Most cars have either a front mount or the trans is tied into the frame at the nose cone ( two lower holes). First cause of poor shifting or popping out of gear is a result of the trans rocking in the saddle. The Lynx cars that I have worked on usually have a diagonal brace on the right rear corner and there is a bolt that goes through the upper engine -trans mount. This helps keep the engine-trans from rocking as you have no other support on either end. Again I would put the front mount back in place. As Jim said several times, there is no evidence that the front mount will hurt you.
The comment about "rubber adaptors" I believe refers to the pieces that tie the manifold center section to the end castings. They are used to mount the manifold which on a dual port, can not be one piece due to the mounting angle and the end castings- not due to expansion so you need not worry about that either.

Looking at your shift assembly at the nose cone- that assembly takes some very careful adjustment to make it work. There are much simpler set ups that can be made that will eliminate all of those rod ends- and subsequent adjustments.

On the exhaust, it is usually a good idea that the pipes be arranged in firing order- either 1-4-3-2 or 1-2-3-4 (backwards) . It looks like your 3 and 4 need to switch places.

Also looks like you are working hard at getting this where you want it- I compliment you on your diligence.

Hope this helps.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby SR Racing » February 13th, 2009, 1:50 pm

Dietmar wrote:On the exhaust, it is usually a good idea that the pipes be arranged in firing order- either 1-4-3-2 or 1-2-3-4 (backwards) . It looks like your 3 and 4 need to switch places.


Well.... there is SOMETHING to be said for proper swirl and scavaging with the pipes in fireing order.... But,, after all that work he has done, I think perfomance wise that the tiny amount he might get with a 4:1 would make that one of my least worries... <g>
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby jaymzz » February 14th, 2009, 1:42 am

Thanks everyone. So will it be an issue to leave the exhaust like it is? I will be running a baffled stinger. I found out tonight what it takes to put in a new clutch cable. That was not a very fun job. lol I took the exhaust off and painted it all black with 2000 degree black paint. Thanks to the local VW supply store I now have all the little things to get it running good I hope, we will see tomorrow when I get it back together and take it around the block. :D Where would be a good place to look into shifters and shifter designs? I messed with my shifter for a while today and can't seem to get it any smoother.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby jaymzz » February 14th, 2009, 4:52 am

Couple pictures of the done exhaust. I still need a baffle though. I made it so I could quick change it to a quieter muffler if needed. I haven't built the other muffler yet though.

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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby jpetillo » February 14th, 2009, 9:03 am

Dietmar is right, if that's all you have to mount your engine and transmision are the bolts at the bottom of the bell housing, the whole assembly will rock back and forth. It can be bad enough to pop it out of gear, which I've experienced. I'd be concerned that it would eventually form cracks near the bell housing bolts as well. John
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby vreihen » February 14th, 2009, 12:17 pm

jaymzz wrote:Where would be a good place to look into shifters and shifter designs? I messed with my shifter for a while today and can't seem to get it any smoother.


Since it appears that your car has the Jamar shift linkage on the transaxle, perhaps their web site can provide some useful info?

http://www.jamarperformance.com/Store/Results1.asp?Category=6

My Vee came from it's previous owners with both the Jamar linkage and their shifter box installed. When it is working properly, it still doesn't compare to the shifter feel or smoothness of a modern car. I've never driven a Beetle, but did drive an Autodynamics with a different shift arrangement that was less precise and felt even worse. If your complaint about the shifting is based on the feel compared with your street cars, I'm afraid that there may not be a huge improvement no matter what you try, but will defer that call to the people here who work on Vees and have driven them more than me.

I did notice three things from your pictures that may be of some help:

Up in the cockpit, your shifter lever has it's pivot point lower than the shifter rod. If I remember correctly, the inside of Jamar's shifter box has the pivot ball above the shift rod. My guess is that if you changed the shifter lever so that it pivoted above the rod, your H-shifting pattern would be correct. Double-check my logic before you tear your shifter apart, though.

My linkage is clamped to the transaxle nose cone pointing downward at 4 o'clock, whereas yours appears to be at 3 o'clock. When I accidentally bumped that linkage on mine coming off of the trailer, it was twisted to 3 o'clock and the tranny actually wound up stuck in gear until I rotated it back. It was *very* touchy about this angle on my car!

My car has a spherical rod end tack-welded to the frame under the front cylinder, and the shift rod passes through it. I have a hard time believing that this was a part of the Jamar kit, since the shift rod needs to slide through that bearing as well as rotate, and a spherical bearing doesn't work too well as a bushing. (The tolerance was so close that mine rusted solid over the winter one year.) The tack weld snapped before the rust let go. Long story short, I used loose tie wraps to hold the shift rod up and close to the frame, which is the only way that my car would shift at all given the long length of the shift rod and having a universal joint in the middle of the linkage.

I can't see from your pictures if there's a frame or some sort of bushing under the cylinders guiding the shift rod, but suggest that you look into adding one if it's not there since my own car with the Jamar transaxle linkage couldn't shift it's way out of a wet paper bag without something in this location guiding the shift rod.....
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby jaymzz » February 14th, 2009, 2:43 pm

Thank you very much for the input. I am not comparing the shifter to a car, but it is really hard to move it. I greased the spots where it slides in the frame. I didn't think about looking at there website, so thanks for the link. I am going to go out and try a few things now.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby jaymzz » February 14th, 2009, 9:25 pm

Here is where I left off today. I bled the brakes, adjusted the clutch, adjusted the shifter(shifts so much better now), put the harnesses in, put the breather on, hooked up the throttle cable, broke the shifter, fixed the shifter, adjusted the valves(man where they tight) adjusted the carbs, and some other stuff that I can't remember. I took it out and drove it today. It has so much more power than it had the last time I drove it. The thing gets sideways very easily now. But it is still having some running issues and I can't figure it out. So I will keep messing with it until it runs tip top. :D
I did learn something very valuable today though. If you see a mud puddle coming up at least close the eyes without the helmet on! :lol: Thanks for the tip on the angle of the shifting assembly. I turned it like said and it works so much better now.

Broke the shifting linkage where the bolt went through.
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I welded a round piece of something I found in the garage so I can now grease it. It is a lot smoother now than it was before.
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Ready to race except for the small running issue. I can't wait to make a new body for it. But this one will do for this year.
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And the firewall is done. All the wiring and such is all on it.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby 77fmod » February 15th, 2009, 9:17 am

Just a couple of comments, again.

The rules state that the firewall only has to be 25" tall. Are you sure that you want that extra height behind you acting as an air brake?

Also, you are aware that if you autocross that car it will have to run in A/mod, aren't you? That's because the cc limit with two carbs is 1600.

Best of luck,

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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby jaymzz » February 15th, 2009, 1:58 pm

I am thinking about cutting the firewall down. I don't care what class I get put in as long as I get to go out and have fun. 8)
Last edited by jaymzz on February 15th, 2009, 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby 77fmod » February 15th, 2009, 2:32 pm

Kewl
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby DanRemmers » February 16th, 2009, 12:51 am

I made a drawing of my shifter. I think it's similar to most vees.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Rox3WhpNicE/SZjsvVYLxrI/AAAAAAAAATA/UDDmKRtEkIY/s1600-h/shifter.jpg
It's simple and works well.

When you reassembled your shift knob, the bolt that goes through the shaft (where it broke) should be threaded only where the nut attaches and not all the way through. Threads will wear off and/or cut the shaft. That's what caused lots of play in my shifter.

My car also has a reverse lock-out, which makes it easier to find 1st & 2nd and avoid reverse. It is crude (adjustable only by bending the steel plate), but great for starting in and downshifting into 2nd gear.
Last edited by DanRemmers on February 17th, 2009, 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby DanRemmers » February 16th, 2009, 12:57 am

jaymzz wrote: The thing gets sideways very easily now.

You need bigger tires! 8" wide in the front, 10" in the rear.
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Re: 1970 Lynx vee

Postby jaymzz » February 16th, 2009, 9:41 pm

Thanks Dan. Your picture didn't show up though. I am looking into wider wheels and tires, but they might have to wait for a couple of months. Still trying to recoup some of the money the car has used up over the winter rebuilding it.
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