newbie - where do I go - what do I do

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newbie - where do I go - what do I do

Postby bocoer » December 3rd, 2015, 7:08 pm

I am considering getting in to Vintage Vee racing.

My interest in FV is :
* I want restore ( or maintain ) a FV ( vintage one )
* I'd like to race a few times a year.

I have a couple of vintage vws and have restored a couple so mechanically I'm not too worried.

My questions are many though:
* Is it ok to buy a project?
* Where can I the specs so any car I restore is raceable?
* What ( generally ) is involved in getting started racing?

I have read a few web pages now, the only person I have known with direct knowledge of FV racing has passed on, I've looked in thesamba.com but suprisingly not a lot of information there.

Thanks!
Rob
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Re: newbie - where do I go - what do I do

Postby jphoenix » December 3rd, 2015, 10:14 pm

Where are you located? There is a lot of information on this forum, so you've come to the right place - welcome!
Jim Phoenix
2016 Red Mercury FV 44
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Re: newbie - where do I go - what do I do

Postby bocoer » December 4th, 2015, 11:21 am

I'm located in Boston.
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Re: newbie - where do I go - what do I do

Postby Dietmar » December 4th, 2015, 2:50 pm

Rob:

You have found the place to get some or all of your answers.

Most VINTAGE groups use monoposto rules or some modification of those rules. These can be had on line . Just look for monoposto and the FV section. The rules have been updated just recently, but it will get you started.

Projects for some are different than projects for others,. With some mechanical skills and tools you should be able to rebuild most cars provided the majority of the pieces are there and available.
Some parts will have to be recreated and there are several people who have the jigs or drawings to help you out depending on the model of the project that you plan to restore. If you do not feel comfortable doing this, then there are cars available that are "ready to go" which usually means some work on your part if nothing more than updating seat belts, freshening engines, or replacing fuel cells. Find out when the car was last on track.

I am trying to think of some Vintage car drivers in your area to contact, but I am coming up short. There are many in the NE who are currently running with SCCA and I am sure they will chime in once they read your post asking for direction. They are a great group of guys and will help in any way they can. Try www.nefv.org

You are also more than welcome to call me at any time (9-5 Pac time ) with any questions that I might be able to answer. My web site is listed at the top of the page .

Hope this helps.

Dietmar
www.quixoteracing.com
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Re: newbie - where do I go - what do I do

Postby bocoer » December 4th, 2015, 7:53 pm

Thanks for the information Dietmar!

Based upon my aircooled automotive experience, I'm kind of leaning towards a project, but often it can be cheaper to buy someone else's finished project.

I want to stay in the 40hp aircooled realm .

I'll certainly poke around the nefv.org site.

I have so many questions still!
but for example:
where are the regulations for the engine specs ( on 40hp ) posted?
how much does a typical FV weigh?
is a rear cowling required ( shrouding in engine area )?
where is the fuel kept?
do people have batteries or are they using magnetos like aircraft?
do they use starter motors or have them push started?

thanks!
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Re: newbie - where do I go - what do I do

Postby Dietmar » December 4th, 2015, 10:31 pm

Rob:
Look up monoposto and find the FV section. You can also go to SCCA.com and find the GCR and the FV section ( bit more difficult to navigate).
Every organization is different for Vintage- some have weight with driver, some without. No two are necessarily the same.
Engine cover is required on road racing vehicles.
Fuel cells ( rubber bladders with foam and metal on at least three sides is required by most organizations.
Batteries are required- they can be 12volt and some organizations require a working generator and some allow a gutted generator

12v batteries with 6v starters as the rules require the 6 v flywheel.

Again, my number can be found in the banner ad above.

Dietmar
www.quixoteracing.com
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Re: newbie - where do I go - what do I do

Postby FV80 » December 6th, 2015, 10:06 am

bocoer wrote:I have so many questions still!
where are the regulations for the engine specs ( on 40hp ) posted?

Go to this link...
http://www.scca.com/pages/cars-and-rules for lots of info on SCCA cars in general. Specifically, this link
http://www.scca.com/downloads/10282-2015-gcr-december is to the latest version of the SCCA General Competition Rules (GCR). Open it in a PDF reader and look for the Formula Car Specifications (it has a decent table of contents if your reader can access it - adobe on a PC does well). The section number for FV is 9.1.1.C and it starts on page 320. The engine part is section 9.1.1.C.5 and starts on page 322.
bocoer wrote: how much does a typical FV weigh?

The MINIMUM weight for FV in SCCA Road Racing is 1025 lbs. You can be anywhere above that weight. This is driver in the car, as it rolls OFF of the track following any session.
bocoer wrote: is a rear cowling required ( shrouding in engine area )?
Yes. Sections 8 and 9 discuss the frame and bodywork requirements (starting p 322).
bocoer wrote: where is the fuel kept?
An approved FUEL CELL is required for all Road Racing cars. The cell must also be enclosed in a metal 'container'. Those rules as well as specific frame material is not in the FV section, but rather in the basic Section 9 starting on p. 80. That includes all rules pertaining to the frame, roll bars, fuel cell, driver's harness (belts), helmets, etc, etc and is general to ALL classes with specific notes for Formula Classes.
bocoer wrote: do people have batteries or are they using magnetos like aircraft?
FV is required to have an onboard starter and therefore a battery. The SIZE of the battery is not specified, but generally, if you want your car to crank HOT (like after a spin), then you need to have at least a 17+ Ah battery. Most people use a gel cell type of 12v battery and the original 6V starter that came on bugs - but *ANY* alternative starters are also allowed.
bocoer wrote: do they use starter motors or have them push started?
see above... however a PUSH START *IS* allowed per the rules - but there are specific requirements on the grid. The grid can be quite crowded at times, so push starting has to be 'controlled'.

The answers above apply specifically to ROAD RACING cars - Autocross cars use the 'general lines' of a RR FV, but FV has received MANY allowances for AX since it is not nearly as inherently dangerous as road racing .... and FV has been moved into a category where it competes directly against FF and F5 cars, so the engine and transmission rules are now also radically different.

There are several different Vintage organizations that allow FV (generally FV cars built before 1972 IIRC). Their rules vary somewhat from the GCR, but the basis is the same. Most vintage rules are based on an earlier version of the GCR from ~30 years ago except for a few safety rules that are newer.

You have more questions? We have more answers :lol:
Steve, FV80
The Racer's Wedge, FV80
To sign up in the FV Registry for updates about SCCA Formula Vee, please go to http://www.FormulaVee.us/fvregistry_interface2/eEditor.asp?action=insert and enter the appropriate info.
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Re: newbie - where do I go - what do I do

Postby ajaxsenior » December 10th, 2015, 12:19 pm

Bocer,
In the NE area, a very good vintage group to belong to and who hold events in the NE area, that included FV. The VRG is found at www.vrgonline.org There are several FV guys from your area. All of what FV80 and Dietmar say is so very true, and as a newbie you have about 50 years of FV experience to catch up on! The good news is FV is relatively simply to own and maintain, along with being as low cost a class as you can find. However starting from zero will be a bit of a climb! Reading all you can on this forum and any other FV material. SR Racing (now retired)had a great starter book, maybe someone can still supply one? This is a great way to start. I would also recommend to speed your learning curve, contact some of the local FV guys in the VRG and talk with them then go see them and their vees. I am in west PA area, but PM me on this forum, and I'm happy to talk FV anytime. While rebuilding or restoring FV is relatively simple, NOTHING is stock VW, every area of the engine, transaxle, front beam, shocks, springs, etc. has some modifications done to enhance reliability and speed info learned, or to conform to rules, work better with the light weight of the FV and parts modification done to try to keep the competition as tight as FV racing with it's nose to tail type excitement that FV racing has been known for all these years!

Learning is not hard, but doing it all from scratch will slow your progress. As a new road racer you also will not have experience to draw from to know how the FV should feel, and if it is set up properly or not, and is is not just your skill sets?. Possibly finding a known used vintage legal FV that just needs repair or safety gear updating, etc could be cost effective way to go? Engines are like in any form of racing..... a key issue! And yes we use stock VW parts, but very few are not modified in some way to assist reliability and as we all know too well, that human condition called competitiveness! Remember in FV racing just a few HP makes a world of difference!

Merry Christmas, and good Luck!
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