What type of formula car?

What type of formula car?

Postby gt350shelb » May 13th, 2019, 8:42 pm

I recently picked up this tub Seller claimed it was formula vee / as far as he knew. I bought it with some spares and have started the process of trying to figure out what it really is . The confusing part to me is the monocoque chassis. I cannot find any formula v or super vee with this design . The main hoop and much of the suspension arms are nickel plated , the tub is buck riveted together/front inner mounted shocks are dated 1971 decarbon shocks/ rears are also decarbon/bilstien . there was a builder tag on front left side of tub but it is gone . I did uncover a scca brass tag with "73fsv02" under roll bar padding

The car was abandoned with 2 other cars in a garage and the house was auctioned . 30 years ago. I bought it from the son of the buyer at the auction. no information is available about the previous owner .

Open to ideas from the forum . thanks in advance more photos are available.




Image

Image

Image
gt350shelb
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby FV80 » May 14th, 2019, 7:57 am

Phillip,
Suggest you take a couple of pictures from further away. The ones posted are a bit close and no one can see the overall 'look and feel' of the car. Of course, the 73fsv02 is a pretty good indicator. I have no personal experience with FSV, but many on here do. You might want to also post over on the FSV forum at Apexspeed.com as there are probably more FSV guys on that forum.
Steve, FV80
The Racer's Wedge, FV80
To sign up in the FV Registry for updates about SCCA Formula Vee, please send me an email or PM with your name, location (city/state), make/model of car, phone # and any other appropriate info.
User avatar
FV80
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 9:07 am
Location: Near Athens, GA

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby gt350shelb » May 14th, 2019, 8:24 pm

here is an over all photo / wheels are dan gurney 914/6 wheels / wheel base is about 91 inches/car was found with 2 914 s so there are some parts mixed in . I have made multiple attempts to post on apex speed and ten tenths forums neither has approved any of my posts .... i dont get it .


Image
gt350shelb
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby FV80 » May 14th, 2019, 9:22 pm

OK.. a little "far away" this time :mrgreen: , but the rear end DOES look like it has a (more or less) 'standard mounting platform' for a Volkswagen flat 4 (or even 6?) engine/trans. I'm thinking (but really don't KNOW) that FSV's used VW 1600 cc engines .. but no idea what carburetors or manifolds were used. Also assuming that the trans.. would have been TRANSAXLE as used in formula vee of today .... likely though modified for easy gear change as are early club fords .. called 'hewlan gearboxes', I think (I'm exposing my ignorance here ..).

Hopefully, someone that KNOWS something will come across this and post a decent response.
Steve, FV80
The Racer's Wedge, FV80
To sign up in the FV Registry for updates about SCCA Formula Vee, please send me an email or PM with your name, location (city/state), make/model of car, phone # and any other appropriate info.
User avatar
FV80
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 9:07 am
Location: Near Athens, GA

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby gt350shelb » May 14th, 2019, 9:34 pm

ImageImage
gt350shelb
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby FV80 » May 15th, 2019, 8:00 am

Looks like DRUM brakes on the rear and DISC brakes on the front. However, I still have no idea if that's the way the early FSV's came. THIS one certainly looks like it was put together well though. That's a LOT of rivets on the tub. The 'v' in the rear saddle mount looks to be a bit sharp to me as compared to mine.. but I really haven't viewed mine from that angle very much... with no trans in place.
Steve, FV80
The Racer's Wedge, FV80
To sign up in the FV Registry for updates about SCCA Formula Vee, please send me an email or PM with your name, location (city/state), make/model of car, phone # and any other appropriate info.
User avatar
FV80
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 9:07 am
Location: Near Athens, GA

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby BLS » May 15th, 2019, 3:09 pm

Just a guess, a home built FSV. Definitely for an air cooled VW engine. The only category it fits is FSV or FS possibly. I remember something like that rear suspension on some early cars, but maybe not a FSV.


It might be a production model. It's been a long time since I've looked at a FSV. The super vee guys would know if it is.
Barry
Old Zink FV,
'87 Citation
BLS
 
Posts: 392
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 7:52 pm
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby dd46637 » May 17th, 2019, 5:26 pm

This has the look of an early 70's SV.
Drum brakes on the rear were common on the first cars.
I was around the Bosch VW Gold Cup Series in the mid to late 70's and this chassis does not look familiar.
The tag that says 73FSV02 would possibly mean it's a 1973 and chassis number 2.
The common gearbox was a Hewland MK8 which uses a VW case and quick change internals.
The very first cars used the type 1/3 1600 with dual port heads and 40mm Solex or Webber carbs.
You certainly have a mystery car on your hands here.
dd46637
 
Posts: 135
Joined: December 24th, 2006, 9:38 pm
Location: south bend IN

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby gt350shelb » May 18th, 2019, 6:42 am

The brass tag info "usually " reads / Region/ type of car/log book number for that region
gt350shelb
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby dd46637 » May 18th, 2019, 7:04 am

After a little searching I think you have a Zink Z9 chassis.
There is one on the Samba for sale. I will try and post link later.
dd46637
 
Posts: 135
Joined: December 24th, 2006, 9:38 pm
Location: south bend IN

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby gt350shelb » May 18th, 2019, 8:26 am

There are a few things in this photo that may help identify what we are working with here .
first is the method used to attach the main hoop to structure ( the oval shapes)

the other is the for and aft torsion bars running parallel to chassis ( just below left upper trailing arm you can see the back of the front torsion bar mount ) and below it you can see the one running to rear of car .





Image
gt350shelb
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby gt350shelb » May 19th, 2019, 7:57 pm

As of today im 98 % sure which car this is . After pulling the fuel cell out it was dated 2/71 and manufactured for Nickle eng . So this appears to be the only Nickle fsv ...... this is why nothing else matched it . Looks like it was raced for 2 years and then fell off the radar .
gt350shelb
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby BLS » May 20th, 2019, 12:15 am

Never heard of Nickel. Where were they located if you know?
Barry
Old Zink FV,
'87 Citation
BLS
 
Posts: 392
Joined: May 11th, 2011, 7:52 pm
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby gt350shelb » May 20th, 2019, 6:10 am

Earl Nicewarmer #5 of East Hartford, Conn., leads a pack of 150-mph Volkswagen- powered Formula Super Vee racing cars through a turn on Florida's Daytona International Speedway. Nicewarner teamed with Kenneth Kleitz to design and build the Nickle Engineering speedster, each lending the first three letters of his last name for the Nickle nameplate


Image
gt350shelb
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby FV80 » May 20th, 2019, 8:01 am

Looks like you found yourself a nice little piece of HISTORY there, Phillip. If you aren't already aware, there is a site specific to FSV at
https://www.formulasupervee.com/. Perhaps you could find some more input over there. The guy that started that site seems to be really interested and probably has a LOT more information than what shows on the site. It's also quite possible that the original builders are still around somewhere. You might also want to look through the posts in the Super Vee Forum here on this site.

Steve, FV80
The Racer's Wedge, FV80
To sign up in the FV Registry for updates about SCCA Formula Vee, please send me an email or PM with your name, location (city/state), make/model of car, phone # and any other appropriate info.
User avatar
FV80
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 9:07 am
Location: Near Athens, GA

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby hardingfv32 » May 20th, 2019, 11:33 pm

Did this car/chassis look this primitive when it was new or has it just been mutilated with modifications?

Brian
hardingfv32
 
Posts: 99
Joined: June 9th, 2015, 8:04 pm

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby gt350shelb » May 21st, 2019, 10:11 pm

gt350shelb
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby hardingfv32 » May 22nd, 2019, 12:55 am

That does not answer my question. The chassis currently looks like a piece of poorly engineered junk. Was this the layout of the chassis when it was winning races?

Just interested in how primitive the first FSV's were.

Brian
hardingfv32
 
Posts: 99
Joined: June 9th, 2015, 8:04 pm

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby FV80 » May 22nd, 2019, 8:45 am

Brian,
I think you are expecting too much from a car that was raced in 1973. That was before the internet and copious 'interswapping' of ideas via forums and facebook and even pictures. I'd guess that, yes, this is the way the car was raced although I'm not certain that Phillip has indeed proven that this particular car is the one he thinks it is .. it certainly could be. I would also bet that at least one of the designers worked in an aircraft facility of some sort. That looks like pretty handy riveting to me. There would have been precious few 'commercially available' parts and even shocks would have most likely been stolen off the family car .. or someone else's :mrgreen: . I see some pieces of bodywork in the background of the pickup truck with an SCCA sticker on it. I wonder if this also pre-dates roll bar stamping. It was before my time, so I don't know when it started, but it was in place in 1977 when I started. Poor design?? By today's standards it certainly is, but it was built a LONG TIME before CNC machines started to show up in people's garages. Finding a roll bar number would go a long way towards a proper ID .. if there ever was one.

Steve, FV80
The Racer's Wedge, FV80
To sign up in the FV Registry for updates about SCCA Formula Vee, please send me an email or PM with your name, location (city/state), make/model of car, phone # and any other appropriate info.
User avatar
FV80
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: June 27th, 2006, 9:07 am
Location: Near Athens, GA

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby gt350shelb » May 22nd, 2019, 8:46 pm

I don't know what is considered junk when looking at this tub .. I have delt with far worse off vintage racecars. One of the the things that sparked my interest in this car from the sellers ad was the care that seemed to be taken when car was built / really who would plate the main hoop and weld it to chassis afterward /most would just paint it/ rear fabricated uprights might not be pretty but they are tig welded /not stick welded /or mig. the aluminum work is very nicely done there are some "modifications and holes added . But this was a race car in 1972 -1973 raced from coast to coast and finish in top 10 quite a bit . 4th at talladega is pretty impressive.
gt350shelb
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby gt350shelb » May 22nd, 2019, 9:09 pm

Image
gt350shelb
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby gt350shelb » May 22nd, 2019, 9:11 pm

backing plate is also plated




Image
gt350shelb
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby gt350shelb » May 22nd, 2019, 9:13 pm

Image
gt350shelb
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby gt350shelb » May 22nd, 2019, 9:14 pm

Image
gt350shelb
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

Re: What type of formula car?

Postby gt350shelb » May 22nd, 2019, 9:15 pm

Image
gt350shelb
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 11th, 2019, 10:32 am

Next

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron