Disc brakes

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Disc brakes

Postby BLS » September 12th, 2017, 12:25 am

Saw this tonight in the Oct minutes:

"FV 1. #22456 (Formula/Sports Racing Committee) Disc Brakes in FV - Member Survey At the recommendation of the FV ad hoc committee, the CRB recommends the option of disc brakes in FV. Add the following:
9.1.1.4.D. Front and/or rear brake drums and backing plate assemblies may be replaced with a disc brake conversion assembly as an option. The front spindle/steering knuckle, rear axle, axle tube, bearing housing and bearing retainer/seal assembly must remain per GCR part 9.1.1. A spacer plate or a portion of the rear caliper support may be fitted beneath the bearing retainer to replace the backing plate dimension. Any ferrous alloy, unvented rotor may be used, but must have a maximum diameter of 11.75 in. and a minimum thickness of 0.20 in. The otherwise smooth rotor may have a maximum of three pad cleaning grooves per side. Any ferrous or aluminum alloy caliper and caliper support may be used. The caliper must have no more than four pistons and weigh a minimum of 1.65 lbs. Brake pads are free. Any hub assembly may be used as long as it can be fitted with part 9.1.1. wheels. "

https://dk1xgl0d43mu1.cloudfront.net/user_files/scca/downloads/000/037/970/October2017.PrelimMinutes.pdf?1505170766
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby FV80 » September 12th, 2017, 9:06 am

WOW... things are happening ... and without ANY member input too.... at least so far. I wonder which specific parts the FVC had in mind when they wrote the rule? A caliper at 1.65 lbs seems somewhat unlikely .. even if it was aluminum. Since this is preliminary minutes, maybe the intent was to ask for a SURVEY of the PROPOSED rule? Kinda almost looks like that to me, but it says ADD THE FOLLOWING....
Maybe should read "PROPOSE TO ADD THE FOLLOWING..."??
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby FV80 » September 12th, 2017, 9:24 am

FWIW, I posted some pictures of the conversion kit I installed and tested back in '06. It was a FRONT ONLY kit that cost ~$240 delivered to my door. I don't recall the weights, but it wasn't far off of a wash. It DID require different wheels though. The newer 4 hole, 5.5 x 15" VW wheels from the ~'69 models. At that time, kits for Wide5 were at least double that cost.
http://www.wedgeracing.com/disc/discpics.htm
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Oh yeah.. it took about 5 hours of work to get it installed the first time, but only about an hour to convert back to drums after the test. I couldn't really tell any difference, but only ran it for one test session.
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby BLS » September 12th, 2017, 9:13 pm

Steve, been out all day so just seeing your comments. I thought the way it was written was pretty interesting. And timely. I guess I'll hold off on purchasing new drums and high priced shoes until I see what this becomes.
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby hardingfv32 » September 15th, 2017, 12:23 pm

I believe the goal is a well designed race setup. Calipers and discs from say Wilwood. The caliper weight is possible with $100 Wilwood calipers.

We need more information about where the hubs are going to come from. I would imagine the design is for billet CNC units. These hubs must be heavy as there is very little chance that the complete system will be lighter than the current drum arrangement. I think this would be necessary to negate any possible perception of a performance improvement.

I think the proposal is trying to be open to the full spectrum of design possibilities. The heart of the survey/member input is whether you approve of disc brakes on a FV.

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Re: Disc brakes

Postby BLS » September 15th, 2017, 10:11 pm

Brian, yes I agree, the hub is the issue. As near as I can tell, the one piece hubs that keep the track standard are both heavy and have possible strength issues. Every hub that is two piece and built to higher strength seems to have a track increase.
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby FV80 » January 9th, 2018, 7:59 pm

It seems that this new rule (see post #1 by BLS), has been PASSED.. without any of us being aware of it.

FWIW, I have just submitted the following message to the CRB via the CRBSCCA.com website (Tracking Number: #23775). I never saw anything about it being PASSED ... and I LOOKED!
---------------------------- (my message)
Code: Select all
In the Feb 2018 prelim minutes I see this ...
-------------
FV
1. #23697 (Mike Schiffer) Opposes Disc Brake in FV Reference Letter #22456
Thank you for your letter. Please see the response to Letter #22456, October 2017 Fastrack Minutes, which the Board of Directors approved as recommended in November 2017.
-------------

In searches through the issued Fastracks, I cannot find ANY evidence that the BOD has approved disc brakes as recommended by the CRB back in Oct '17.  The reference above says it was approved in Nov '17 .. but I don't see it in the Nov, or Dec or Jan or the prelim Feb Fastracks. All references I can find simply refer the reader back to the RECOMMENDATION (*NOT APPROVAL BY THE BOD) back in the October issue.

This seems like a rather significant CHANGE in the rules for FV.  Was the membership notified of this?  If so, please tell me HOW we were notified.  And please confirm for me exactly WHEN this new rule becomes effective.
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby BLS » January 10th, 2018, 12:42 am

I'm betting it's an error in the response...
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby FV80 » January 11th, 2018, 9:21 am

I got this back from Rick Harris - Tech Manager at SCCA...
Code: Select all
The letter system shows that letter #22456 went out in the October Fastrack as a RECOMMEND  item. The letter system also shows it was approved at the November BoD meeting. It looks like the letter was mistakenly assigned as approved in the letter system, and never sent back to the committee for revision.

The committee is currently working on an official clarification but as it stands disc brakes are not approved at this time for FV.


It is not clear to me just what "committee' that Rick is referring to.. but for sure disc's are currently NOT APPROVED for FV.
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby BLS » January 12th, 2018, 12:08 am

Thanks for getting the information Steve.
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby jpetillo » January 16th, 2018, 10:41 pm

Yes, it is my understanding that it has not been approved by the BOD at this time. John
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby BLS » February 14th, 2018, 8:32 pm

As an update, it appears the disc brake option has been approved beginning Jan 1, 2019.

Still awaiting details / wording to see if the approval is as originally written.
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby jpetillo » February 22nd, 2018, 2:37 am

I'll try to get a confirmation.
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Re: Disc brakes

Postby jpetillo » March 4th, 2018, 10:52 pm

Barry,

Sorry - I've been out of town for while. But, this is the information I have received back. As it states in FastTrack it’s approved for 1/1/19. The BOD considers the matter a done deal and approved it as written.

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Re: Disc brakes

Postby BLS » March 5th, 2018, 11:16 am

John, thanks for the confirmation.
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